Q&A for alternative medicine claims (moderated to keep it readable)

I think we need a moderated thread for the discussion of some alternative medicine claims as the other threads are becoming a jumble of confusion.

There is a format to this thread, if the format is not followed what you write DISAPPEARS.

Ask one question, wait till it has been answered then argue your position if needed.

If you want to ask another question in this thread you must either withdraw your claim or have your claim accepted.

Sound like a fair way to proceed?

I'll assume so. So my question comes first.

Smartgirl, Regarding the claims of Homeopathy. Given that water is so abundant and cheap, the methodology of preparation so simple and that the lavish claims of Homeopathy have been around since the late 1700s. Surely in a couple of hundred years with such basic constituents it could prove itself beyond any doubt.

Question:

Why do we not have Homeopathy as the dominant medicinal method with things like Antibiotics and Analgesics (just sticking to the letter A) seen as fringe alternative medicines?

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I like this idea. Building

I like this idea. Building it now. Check the new Moderated Forum section.

Unlike a cyst on the body

a serious dental abscess will not recede of its own accord once it has flared up. Ask a dentist.
I have given you one very simple instance where a homeopathic treatment has worked and you're saying you don't believe it.

If I had said that I took antibiotics and the swelling quickly went down, you would have believed that -yes?
But because I said that ( instead of antibiotics) I used a certain homeopathic remedy - you are unwilling / unable to.

To answer your Q about the difference between "perceiving" something vs "feeling"
it, if you look in a dictionary you'll discover that one perceives through the mind. ( Pain is felt directly through the body.)

SG, please answer inline

To answer your Q about the difference between "perceiving" something vs "feeling"...

SG, can you please answer in the appropriate place so some semblance of order can be maintained. It will make it easier for anyone that wants to follow the conversation.

Given the reason for this thread being started consider this the first warning.

I've responded in the original thread.

I tried to

...but something odd was going on last night- like it wasn't working properly.

(Anyway, my current problem is that I don't know how to "cut & paste" in order to dissect and challenge your assertions individually.like you do mine.)

What do you mean by "one data point in uncontrolled circumstances.." etc?
I think what you're saying is that because this was not some officially set up experiment, with a control group, (therefore)my claim that the treatment worked is inconclusive.
Fair enough , I see that you can't accept my personal results, without "official scientific proof". Even though, I told you that every time the thing flared up, it went down like a balloon as soon as I administered my "alternative" to antibiotics.
Ok. I concede to your disbelief , even though I know it was not my imagination, or some other factor. (What other factor could it possibly have been, given that I told you a nasty dental abscess will NEVER just go down without outside intervention)

...."one data point in

...."one data point in uncontrolled circumstances.."....

This means that your experience with the abscess is a sample of one or is one data point in a study (if a study was being done). You could never come to any conclusions in a study group size of only one.

It is uncontrolled because there is no way of removing the background rate of other possible causes for an effect.

How do you know there wasn't any Antibiotics in what you took? Because someone told you? It has been discovered many times that some so called "Homeopathic" remedies have contained non homeopathic ingredients such as Antibiotics.

Remember if there's anything in there other than water it's not homeopathic.

pot, kettle, black

a serious dental abscess will not recede of its own accord once it has flared up. Ask a dentist.
I have given you one very simple instance where a homeopathic treatment has worked and you're saying you don't believe it.

We are saying that one data point in uncontrolled circumstances does not prove anything and given the current weight of research against it being likely it is you who is unwilling to consider that it may have been something else.

Before we would consider that it is likely that your individual claim is accurate you would need to explain why the rigorous studies to date were wrong.

Rob, re-read and comprehend properly my comment

You haven't taken in fully what I said. Besides, it was directed at Gold, in response to his comment.
But to you I ask- homeopathics is NOT just "water".
so how/why do you conclude it's just WATER?

First off some housekeeping,

First off some housekeeping, Smartgirl if you click on the reply tab at the bottom of the particular response you wish to respond to your reply will appear in the correct place.

How did I not take it in what you said fully? You asked what "one data point in uncontrolled circumstances.." means, I have told you.

If you wish to have a private conversation with Gold then do it over email or come to one of the Skeptics in the Pub nights. This is a public forum and anyone may reply to anything here.

As to your question about how I conclude it is just water?

I will start another thread for that.

EDIT: Thread started here http://skepticsinthepub.net.nz/forum/homeopathy-just-water